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Is Social Security constitutional?

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orpatriots97022
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Is Social Security constitutional?

I discussed this question several weeks ago and again today with a patriotic friend who has earned and gets Social Security. This, my friend stated, is the one thing that FDR did right (I did my best to remain calm). My friend's primary argument was that elderly people often do not save up properly for retirement, therefore it is appropriate for the federal government to take younger people's money and save it for their retirement years. He added, significantly, that the federal government (and all other levels) should do whatever the People tell it to.

I said that I believe that those who paid into SS should get returned to them what they paid in, that no new people should be allowed into the SS system, and that the SS system should be phased out as quickly as possible (along with the Dept. of "Education", Medicare, Medicaid, the "Patriot Act", the drug entitlement, and all other federal entitlement programs). But more importantly, I pointed out that the SS system is an example of redistribution of wealth, which was expressly warned against as unconstitutional by a couple of major Founding Fathers and in the majority opinion of the Supreme Court in 1795. I then reminded him that the Constitution is, fundamentally, about the enumerated Powers each branch of the federal government has been delegated, and that the only constitutional way of adding (or removing or changing) the federal government's enumerated Powers is via the Amendment process. Then I pointed out that we the People can constitutionally abolish the Constitution and our federal government if we choose and replace it with whatever governmental system we choose, but as long as we choose to keep the Constitution as a People, we People must not only require the federal and state governments to keep their oaths to support the Constitution...we ourselves also must support the Constitution and its explicit amendment process. In other words, we the People are bound to obey the Constitution just as all levels of government must, and only we the People can abolish and replace the Constitution (not people in the federal or state governments). America does not have a democracy (where the People tell their government what to do directly via popular vote/mob rule) or merely a republic (where the People's representatives tell the government what to do), but a Constitutional Republic where the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land...even over the People except when the People as a whole choose to replace the Constitution and our form of government.

Regarding Powers reserved to the States and and the People, States can do whatever their individual Constitutions and People allow them to in all areas except where the federal Constitution's delegated enumerated Powers speak. This means that an individual State can, if that State's Constitution and its People say so, implement redistribution of wealth systems, for example. But the "general government" is not allowed to because it has not been specifically delegated that Power, even if the People tell the "general government" to but not via the constitutional amendment process.

mfsmith46
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Social Security - legal challenges?

Have there been any legal challenges to Social Security Administration?  I understand that many of FDR's programs were challenged and found unconstitutional.  What about SSA?

What about the $$ paid in by undocumented workers?  If they use a fake SSA number will they recieve the benefits?  I have heard that was the agreement with Pres. Fox of Mexico a few years ago. 

How can public opinion be turned around, not to expect entitlements promised years ago?  The concept of joint sacrifice is just not talked about.  The phase out of SS payments would be a BIG campaign issue.... seems to me before that happens there would need to be lots of folks advocating personal responsibilit and thrift...we have a few voices now, but we need many more.

 

mfs

orpatriots97022
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Social Security - legal challenges?

Entitlements and redistributions of wealth (e.g. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Prescription Drugs, food stamps, Dept. of "Education" etc.) cannot be even phased out over 20 years or so until many more Americans begin to think in Constitutional terms and understand what the Founding Fathers and the original States were about. We must work on educating the public on the Constitution and the Founding Fathers. Oregon 912 Project's Ann Agent is offering the second class series of Freedom Project, which covers the subject well. I was one of about eight who attended Ann's first class series, and highly recommend it. If we could convince conservatives to just carefully read the Constitution, that would be a great start.

kbh

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